Focusing your mind - Bikram Yoga followup

This is a followup to the previous post which described physical changes after starting Bikram Yoga.

Before trying to describe the Behavioral changes over the last 6 weeks (Yes, it has been 6 weeks and so far we have made it to 40/43 days!), there are a few important physical changes that were left out in the previous post.

- Softening and shinier skin. With all that sweating your skin becomes extremely soft like a baby's skin. It also starts reflecting light. Your nose, forehead etc. reflect flash when photographed. The front part of your leg where the skin stretches over the bone also starts to get shiny.

- Hair loss (if you can call it that) in select areas of the body. Inner thighs, the inside of your arms near the elbows, the calf area, the few hairs on your chest all gone. There are a lot of guys who show up to class who are as hairy as they get, but just letting you know that for someone who did not have much body hair to start with this is was a good thing... and yes, your chest reflects a lot more light than before when flash photographed.

- Phenomenal ability to shut your ears from the inside. Well, guess all married men acquire this ability to filter out select sounds from the wife, kids, MIL over time, but this is like magic. You can stop listening to things without ear plugs! Like a switch. Needless to say the four women in the house are all upset with Daddy's new found skill.

There was also one day when I slowed down in class after the first 20 minutes when the towel turned a bright yellow where my sweat pooled on it. Having been through Jaundice in 5th grade was worried about having done something to my liver and started doing one set instead of two throughout the rest of the class. The teacher told me that it is normal for some folks to sweat yellow and to drink more water. Later internet searching showed that this is a reaction to the urea from the sweat (same urea from urine gets out through sweat) to some of the new bio-degradable laundry detergents. As it so happened we brought a new "eco" detergent from Costco two days back and it is not a concern anymore.

Now that we have all that documented for other people who might look for information, here is the part about the mind.

The first few days of Yoga was spent in coping with the body changes. It also came with guilt for not having treated the body nicely all this time since the accident, for abusing it with a lot of 14-18 hour work days, bad food choices etc. etc. Then there were thoughts of "why didn't I do this before. This place is so close to home" and some internal justification that it was not meant to be then and it is meant to be now.

After the first week, there was a total sense of detachment with "high decibel noise". When the kids or wife spoke, daddy listened. When they raised their voice, it was filtered out. Same thing at work in meetings where folks got all hyper. Invariably, you realize that when it gets to that point at work or home, filtering out does not change anything. The people who scream don't accomplish anything anyways and only when they calm down themselves do we get to a solution. The only times in the last six weeks this control was not exercisable was when someone lied and my face and ears turned red because blood rushed to my face. Most of this may be commonsense and things regular people do all the time, but it is a new experience for me.

For a person who was always "hyperactive" and quick to get excited over technical things, this is a big change. In other words my signal to noise has gone up by orders of magnitude. This is perceived by people around me as "operating at a higher level", "separating the wheat from the chaff" etc. etc.

Right now, the reaction to anything that is touted as a major problem is "okay, think. what next". There is a deep breath that is being taken before making any serious decision or before opening ones mouth in meetings or at home. Sometimes it is better to leave things unsaid and when you take that breath you realize it and stop yourself.

Controlling your anger is more difficult when you start yoga. The first week was tough. It was like you became a women and were going through PMS. There was a lot of frustration, anger, and happiness. Was really emotional. This went away after the first week.

This change might be perceived by some as a "he doesn't care anymore" or "is he going to quit?" or sometimes your kids might make statements to your wife like "daddy doesn't listen to me anymore" and your wife might think you are going to leave the house and go to the mountains. You walk away from situations where you would have stood and fought and the other person just goes "what happened? you don't want a fight?", "you not man enough?"..

Have realized that this aloofness is not a good thing right now at this stage of life, especially in light of the man enough part, and have corrected it in places.

Now for a sensitive topic. Internet sites, "Bikram quotes" from people who are writing negative articles about him, say that your drive to do things in bed is supposed to increase with yoga and this is something to brag about. On the contrary, the first two weeks after doing yoga, that was the last thing on my mind. All those pretty people you see in the studio and nothing stirs inside you. You go to Santa Cruz and there are good looking women frolicking in the beach and you don't get excited in any way.

Skimpy clad women are not new to me, even from ballroom dancing days. There it was all about blocking out that from your mind and focusing on the dancing. Here the issue seems to be that there is nothing to block. You expect your brain to work on blocking out a thought but it is like the thought didn't arise in the first place. Again, this is a personal experience and maybe something is different with me. If you tried yoga and went through the same or similar experience, please do drop a note in the comment box. There is not much out there in terms of experience from a guy's perspective. Probably guys are not outspoken when it comes to this topic and guess most guys would not want to talk about this, leave alone blog about this.

Have to admit that I have tried to think about this a little too long. Was this a reflection of how doing things in bed were in the past some way to feel alive or feel good about yourself and now that Yoga makes you feel good, you are okay with all that taking a backseat? Or is it the fact that sleeping earlier and focusing on your breathing taking priority over everything else? It is likely that the sleeping hours before the wife comes to bed and leaving hours before she gets up is the root cause and not some mind thing. Hence the request for others to share their comments. You might be perceived as self centered and selfish by your family if you went through similar things. Guys don't play "hard to get", girls do. So when a guy is perceived that way, something has definitely changed.

One theory (self analysis of course) is that even for a guy, there is a lot of hormone changes possibly going on what with compressing parts of the body and extending them and having blood flow to parts that have not seen such flows in ages. Maybe a side effect of those hormone changes? If you are touching your own forearm and go "wow.. this is smoother than my wife's hand" then maybe you have an issue. Even had a weird dream of me becoming like Lord Shiva in his ArdhaNarishvara form (half of his body is man and the other half is Parvathi).

Internet searches tell me that yoga by default reduces chemicals produced by body in stress situations (cortisol). It also stimulates all the glands in the body. From day 10 to day 30, could not care less about anything. Over the last ten days with some experimenting and self analysis, have come to the conclusion that :

- nothing wrong with me physically
- nothing wrong psychologically with respect to being turned on either but you have to willingly turn on a switch in your head and make it say you want it
- somehow the default setting for sensuality is turned off and you have to turn it on at will

So there again, if you feel your drive is gone and you don't seem be bothered by it, it may not be gone. It is very much there if you chose to go for it.

Having had no training as a doctor or a yogi and not having much data go with from the internet, this is the best I could do to summarize the last part. Yoga is supposed to make you realize that the "you" or "my" is not worth it. Guess you get there through a process where you first realize what the "you" is all about.

Recently the body and mind seem to have reached a steady state and the changes are not drastic. They are all gradual changes in strength, flexibility and the ability to focus or defocus on things and ideas. There is no more weight loss either. It has plateaued out.

Not going to add more posts on Yoga. If anything, will update these two posts or add things to the comment section. The real goal was to put these things out so that other folks looking for info. will at least see one persons perspective and add more data to their decision making process on continuing with Hot Yoga.

Life, just got interesting!

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What to expect when you are .. Bikram Yoga -ing

Have had many requests from friends to document why the first four days of going to Bikram Yoga is a make or break and what to expect.

There are many websites and personal chronicles you can find out there thanks to Google. Actually one such link (passed on by San) is what made me go back.

As most of you know there was a viral infection that pretty much took me down the second week of February. It also left my eyes, nose, throat and inner ear in a bad shape to the point that the local doctors told me that my inner ear canal could have been affected by the virus. Was having a little dizziness to start with occasionally and ended up wearing glasses shortly after our trip to St. Louis and back.

So when we decided to go check out the Yoga, the studio gave us a Pamphlet and a guideline of sorts. This was good.. It said "no eating anything 2-3 hours before the class, drink lots of water the previous day" etc. etc.

So we did drink water, but the word "lots" is relative. For a 38 year old guy who drinks maybe 2 cups of water during a work day and another 2 glasses of water at home.. an extra 2 cups is "lots". That is not enough by a long shot, but you don't realize that at that point in time.

So off we went and did the first class. Both of us tried to do the postures sincerely but our goal (after the first 10 minutes of the class and after the very first aasana) was to simply stay in the hot room for 90 minutes. We met the goal and we came out happy.

The rest of the day was a daze.

1. There was a lot of nausea which faded away after 4-5 hours of the class for the first few days.

2. There was dizziness. Every now and then you feel like everything around you is doing a spin. This also fades away after the first two classes. The key is to drink enough water and keep going pee pee on a regular basis the first four days. That helps you flush out everything that has been stagnant in your body..

3. A purging of sorts of your bowels.. (lots of farting, your stomach exploding in the bathroom and you feeling "where did all that come from?") Trust me, it is good because after the second day my bathroom time has been cut to two minutes max. You wake up in the morning, brush your teeth, drink a big glass of water and two minutes later you can empty out your stomach and be on your way to Class. You also think that you have achieved some way to control your bowel at will (this is a feeling I get, but not sure if there is any real control or it is just me learning to squeeze muscles in the stomach area.. muscles that I did not know I had)

4. Hunger and thirst. Walk around with a water bottle if you have to. Currently I drink 3 liters of water during the day and possibly another 2 liters of water after class and in the night (easily). The 500 ml water bottle gets filled around 10 times a day. You also crave healthy food. I am not making this up. Eat two bananas a day. The bananas were always there in front of me in the kitchen table next to the Grand sweets deep fried Boondhi and my hand will always go for the Boondhi and ignore the Banana.. now it is the other way around. There is a realization that this body is valuable and we should not feed it junk. Do not over eat. Did that the first two days. Then everyone we spoke to said "try to avoid over eating the first few days". Drink water, gatorade, electrolyte solutions, fruits etc. Don't go overboard on rice/naan.

5. Tingling sensation in hands and legs and back part of head. This was my personal experience. MIL did not have this or the hunger. Guess she always controlled her diet. There was a sudden rush of blood to parts of the body which have not experienced this feeling. So the Yogis tell me this is also normal.

6. Bad smell on the first two days. Felt constantly like I was standing next to a public restroom in Chennai on a hot summer day a few times during the afternoon on day 1,2 and 3. My kids who are super sensitive said they did not smell it on me, but it was in my nose. Somehow was constantly smelling a urine smell in my nose and head. This went away in three four days and was replaced by a very sweet smell. Now that smell is also gone. However the kids say daddy smells real nice now after a shower.

7. Bad breath on day 1. Then completely gone. Kids actually verified that daddy does not have bad breath even before going to bed. That is nice.

Fortunately we did not overdo any of the poses in the first few days. We both stretched as far as we could and stopped. So there was no pain, strains etc. Did get over ambitious two weeks ago and tried to touch my head to my ankle, kneeling down on the floor and bending my back. Lucked out on that one. Last week, had my legs too far apart while doing the "awkward pose" and strained my hamstrings and knees. That was taken care of by going back into the heat (thanks to advice from the Bikram web site and book). If you are trying to make a sword of steel and you heat it and bang it into shape and if you have a small blemish, you do not try to beat it when it is cold to reshape it. You have to make it pliable again before fixing it. So, took that advice, went back into the room the next day and "problem gone"!

We did feel a freshness even on day 2,3,4. These days I feel so fresh after the post Yoga shower that it is amazing. You can look forward to the rest of the day. It is like your batteries have been recharged fully!

One thing to note is that both MIL and me had very different experiences. She has done Hatha Yoga 10 years ago in Mumbai for a few months and is in general more flexible than me because she does a few minutes of stretching after we leave the house and walks every day in the evening. So the experiences vary from person to person and your past.

If you experienced any of the above, you are not alone. That is all you can take away from this post. . . and you know at least one guy who had these symptoms kept going and is now very happy.

Final note. I have large huge stretch marks on my tummy and thighs. The BMI on my weighing scale shows that my BMI has changed. That means the fat/protein balance in my body has been disrupted. What does this mean? Based on a lot of internet reading from other people who have done this Yoga here is a summary:

1. Your body is burning calories in the hot room. Unfortunately not all my muscles were in great shape when I started. So the body loses some muscles and fat.

2. The skin starts hanging off in some places (like triceps area, hips, front of tummy etc.) Hence no pictures of the six pack that is starting to show.. there is a seventh pack which resembles a deflated balloon at the bottom of the six pack! This also is normal for people losing 11 pounds in 29 days. Patience is being advised. The skin will shrink with time and with continued Yoga is expected to stretch and get in line with the muscles.

3. The sudden low fat diet that the body automatically adjusts to and the heavy liquid diet makes you lose muscle mass also. So there are recommendations out there for doing additional exercises to strengthen these areas. Most of the yoga students (especially pregnant women) tell you that nothing additional is required. Just regularly show up for class and things get better. Based on looking at some of the bodies in that class, one will have to agree.

The plate and screws in my right hand are still there and in spite of it, can do a whole bunch of aasanas that were originally thought to be impossible. Now the strength is back in the right hand and that alone makes up for everything.

Hope this information helps other folks who are starting Bikram Yoga and are planning to give up in the first 4 days. Please call your Yoga instructors instead of going to a regular doctor. The regular doctors don't understand that these are normal side effects for a body that has not exposed itself to this type of exercise of focus.

DRINK "LOTS" of water. You will know by day 2 what "LOTS" means.

Will post pictures soon.

Happy Yoga!

ps. There is no more dizziness. Can stand on one leg, bend my body like a T parallel to the floor, stretch one hand towards the front and other leg towards the back and hold the pose without falling off.. Inner canal damage?! Don't think so!

pps. This is what Yoga did to the body. What it did to the mind is another story. Won't be able to articulate it that easily. The mind wandered and wandered endlessly and has finally slowed down the last week or so. Will try to write about it tomorrow.

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Independent India

We left Mumbai in the wee hours of Independence day. Every trip to India, especially the metros shows how rapidly the country is changing (On this trip we visited Chennai, Delhi and Mumbai).

The Mumbai we visited 3 years ago and the Mumbai today shows a marked difference. The "goshala" which was visible from the apartment window is now an 18 story building. The sunset from the 6th floor window is not an available sight anymore. There are 4 high rises between the window and the sun.

There is a 6 story mall in Chembur that beats the local mall here in Cupertino hands down. Similar stores, similar prices, same "sales" and "deals", International food courts with popular Indian food chains thrown in, movie theaters with seat reservations and reclining seats and digital projection, Cleaning crews that regularly clean the floors every 5 minutes, paid parking lots, super clean restrooms, etc. etc.

India has also caught up or gone farther than the USA on some of the bad stuff. There is a security check with two metal detectors and a guard and a frisking booth to enter a mall. Same thing for any big restaurant, public park, etc. etc. The population should have gotten used to being checked and frisked at least 4-5 times a day as part of the daily routine.

The big cities have also learnt how to segregate the poor and hide them from the eyes of visitors for the most part. In the US, you don't see poor people in the suburbs. If you go to San Francisco you see homeless folks and beggars but not in huge numbers. The last visit to Mumbai had lots of poor folks trying to make a living and lots of beggars everywhere you went, from the airport to the busy road sides. This trip we did not see beggars. It is like they have all disappeared or relocated! The poor folks trying to sell trinkets to make a living were still there.

Still this experience stood out..

5-7 years ago when I was more hot blooded and less pragmatic, there would have been a different reaction to this 5-6 year old kid selling Indian flag pins few days before Independence day on a busy road where he was risking his life to make a few bucks (in all probability for someone else). Now that I am older and more sober to the reality of the world the way it is today, was content enough to pin the flags on my little girls and watch the smile on the kids face as he took the 10 rupee note.

If the poor go out of sight, they will soon go out of mind, if it is not the situation already!

The young twenty somethings in the metros who have salaries that allow them to spend and go to malls, especially with the lifestyle of living with their parents have become "americanized", not only in how they talk, dress, eat, shop, but also with the way they seem to treat the poor as unfashionable.

In the US it is okay to wait tables, it is okay to be part of a clean up crew as a "summer job" or a means to make a few bucks. I know kids who work the local grocery store as clerks and the local movie theater here at the ticket booth whose parents are well to do. That needs to catch up in India. That way there is a respect for everyone who does any job. That would be a welcome change.

A kid like that going to school and selling trinkets as a part time job from a safe store on the sidewalk would be an equally welcome change!

More travelogs to follow...

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The good, the bad, and now the Ugly

The whole series of posts on the recent 11 day trip to Chennai is coming to an end!

While those posts were a travelogue or commentary on the humorous side, mostly focusing on how the kids and the wedding brought back great memories, there is one last post that deals with things that remind you of how things could be better.

After my previous India trip, a lesson learnt was that if you do not live in India, anything slightly negative about India, will get you in trouble. Even if one mentally prepares to take an argument to the end, it still irks you to find out that you lose the right to say anything negative about India, if you reside abroad. It also gets ridiculous because the people who take you to task are the same ones who seem to have some kind of birthright to criticize things in the USA, although they dont reside in the USA!

In any case, this post will simply point out three things that were observed during the trip (which may be more information, than rant)!

1. Follow the Arrow (the line side, not the triangle side)

This seems to be a repeated theme in airports, stores, etc. where there is a board which shows an arrow for a line or a service, and the cops, regulators have the line setup elsewhere. Mutliple lines form because of the chaos and the last come get served first!!! Happened at Mumbai airport in the "transit" area! It was pathetic.

We had 100+ people, old people, little kids, who came by Jet Air (we were put on Jet through Shanghai after our Cathay flight through Hong Kong was cancelled because of a typhoon) and we were cooped up in a small waiting area to be transported to the domestic terminal to catch a flight to Chennai! There was one set of restrooms, both blocked by garbage and not in usable condition, no access to drinking water and we were told to wait for 2 hours there.

Why? because it is the Mumbai airport that provides the connecting shuttle and not the airlines! So the airlines people blamed the airport folks and the airport folks pointed the finger back at the airlines. There were five newbie kids in blue suits and orange ties who were asking "how may I help you?" when we walked in to hand over our baggage, but were useless and totally ineffective in helping anyone!

Apparently they were all "trainees". After some drama and what would have almost been a lynch mob, they got two shuttles to transport us to the domestic terminal, so no one would miss their connecting flights! The funny thing was the trainees pointed to the arrow and the people who were in urgent need of the shuttle waited by the door only to find that the folks who least needed the shuttle ended up getting in through another door (courtesy of a chain gate and backdoor line set up by same trainees!)

Same thing at the Chennai airport. There is a big sign that says "-> Check in" and you will see a policeman direct you to the exact opposite direction! Then there will be another cop who says "get in line. you are not in the line!" because you were redirected for follwoing the big painted "official" sign board!

Lesson : If you are travelling in India, don't count on FIFO. If there is a counter which says "tickets", do not go stand in front of that counter. You might never even get a ticket! Wait a few minutes to see a line form, then see where the ticket seller actually shows up. There will be a last minute scramble to get to the new location of the counter, and make sure you have the vantage point from which you can make it to the new counter or door or gateway.

2. Always build a temple (before you build a house)

After landing in Chennai, was calling Chennai Call taxi to get a ride. Was in the process of giving our door number when my dad suddenly corrected me..

Dad : "we are not 3/4 anymore, we are now 5/4"!
Me : WTF? When did that happen.. from when I was a baby this has been 3/4. I don't understand!
Dad : After all these years, the street temple has been given a number. Also the illegal house built with a shared wall to the street temple (both built by same dude, who was a king in the illicit liquor business in his heyday) have been given legitimate street numbers (this after 25 years mind you!).

You have to see this to believe it. There is a temple in the street corner. Sharing a floor and a wall with this temple is what appears to be a garage which also doubles up as a prayer hall, and on top of it is a residence! Imagine all the trouble the old folks in this street go through because their door number changed. Go back and do an address change in anything and everything from old bank records, insurance files, etc. etc. ! Bummer.

Lesson : If you want total protection for your house irrespecive of MMDA approval, postal department approval, which political party is in power, etc. dont buy insurance. Just build a temple as part of your house and you are covered. Lord Ganesha is the worlds best home insurance dude!

3. If you feed them, they will come ! (A must read if you plan on opening a restaurant).

Oh wait, I predict that the only restaurants in Chennai will be Saravana Bhavan's or Sangeetha's in ten years. Everything else will be bought by these two guys. They are spreading faster than the Starbucks craze in the USA. Every street corner has a "Sangeetha's".

Little wonder then, that there is a Sangeetha's next to our place also. Apparently they showed a garage in the basement while getting their permit and are now using the basement as storage. That means the customers park on the street and jam the road!

Now what happens? The entire road is made a "one way". One way's are the universal solution to all traffic jams in Chennai. If the Chennai politicians food gets into a jam in his stomach, he will probably make his @$$ "one way"!

As usual, instead of keeping my mouth shut, I ask the people around me, "Why don't you guys complain to the cops? This Sangeetha's is running a valet parking service on the street, when he is illegal in the first place. That parking is for residents!"

They quietly pointed to the three cops redirecting the "valet" effort. Apparently the cops get a free breakfast, lunch and dinner at the restaurant and therefore complaining against their annadaata might not work out in the best interests of the residents!

Lesson: Follow the food chain before you make hasty judgments!

Why bother to write about these things?

In spite of the trip being a short one, there has been plenty of time within the 11 days to do some soul searching on Chennai, never going back, fitting in, etc.

One of my Chinese friends remarked that India could use a project manager like me. He said "If they had ten guys like you, you would whip that place to compete with the US!". Told him that while being extremly happy at that compliment, being a great project manager in the USA does not mean success in India. My own parents never approve of my methods.

Finally told him, "They will throw me out, because they cannot handle me". His response "Why? What is wrong with you?"

Have been trying to answer that question. For starters, "speaking out" is considered a risky activity by everyone in the family. Hush, keep quiet, what if someone hears you, why do you want to buy trouble, etc. etc. is all they tell me, when my blood boils at seeing something and I actually try to go take someone to task, be it a storekeeper, a call taxi dude or a cop! My relatives promptly tell me "you dont know how things work here. your memory of this place is still based on what you saw as a school and college kid fifteen years ago. Things are different now!"

Also, any attempt to point out the current state and a suggestion to improve is always considered as a "negative" stand on the current state of things. This is a catch 22. Why?

Improvement is change in the positive direction.
It can be seen only if measured simply as an equation

"Change = New - Old"

That means, there has to be a mention of the "old" or current and if that is perceived as accusatory, finger pointing, NRI attitude etc., then there is no point in continuing a conversation. For every improvement there is a reason. A problem statement, which when attacked methodically, can have a solution which should also be measured against to verify that improvement has indeed happened!

Any discussion of the metrics, and the discussion turns to argument and the "we are happy with what we have" sets in!

Thought right is right and wrong is wrong... and boy was I wrong on that one!

In any case, it has been proven to me that life for an average middle class person in an Indian Metro like Chennai is ridden with issues that the people just put up with, for fear of retribution. To me, that is unacceptable in the worlds largest democracy, but then again, I do NOT partake in that democratic process and the people who do the "putting up with BS" tell me that it is their way of life and they did not ask me to come and try to change things (for fear that it might make things worse for them after I leave) and have instead gotten used to it!

With that in mind, will leave them to their ways, and will keep myself busy with my way of life. My retirement age just got advanced another 10 years thanks to Lehman, the banks, the @$$holes who gave home loans and the @$$holes who took home equity loans on their homes (which they had no way of affording in the first place) to pay for trips to exotic islands and are now cooly declaring foreclosures and bankruptcys!

I want my money back!! All of my retirement money.. NOW!! Want every person who gave loans without checking background on the loan applicants to be arrested. Want every one who took that loan, to have stuff they bought repossessed. Why should sincere people shoulder the burden of the irresponsible? How can these guys who borrowed money knowing that they can never pay it back, be allowed to walk away with no consequence? This is economic terrorism inflicted by an irresponsible few on the taxpaying many. Is anybody listening?

Well, guess not! So life is not much different in the USA after all. Much like that cop who gets fed by Sangeetha's restaurant, the politicians and regulatory agencies here were probably fed by Lehman?!

For those of you who came here expecting funny stuff, my apologies. We will get back to the lighter side of life starting tomorrow.

It has indeed, been a long day! A ten year extension of your retirement age will do that to you.

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Please bear with me...

this blog is undergoing some massive template changes..

have almost gotten all old segments of blog into the new template, so that all the new draft blogger features can be tested!!

What is the point in being a technologist if you cannot test new stuff?

Well the only gripe is that all those cool buttons I made to categorize posts and the script that I copied off of Braveen, don't work on the latest template..

the nice collapsible buttons on the "old blogger posts" section is still giving me trouble. Ten years ago, I would have rolled up my sleeves, poured over the html code and figured out what was going on (well HTML was new to everyone anyways and I was young and still doing Fortran77 stuff). Now I am a toothless tiger and it takes me much longer when it comes to looking at code and fixing things...

If there is a kind soul out there who can look at my source file and tell me what I am doing wrong and why the "submenu" feature doesnt work....would really appreciate it!

For now, calling it a day!

and yes, bye to blogrolling.. Going to use the Blog List feature from Google (which was definitely a motivating factor for this conversion), where it can be linked to Google Reader.

It is getting hard to keep up with the changes. Posting is one thing. Spending time looking at code to fix template? Tsk.. Tsk..

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